Vice Style

Was there some sort of movement between the establishment and the counterculture?
Yes, of course. Most models worked for the governmental designers and the Institute of Fashion. Frank Schäfer did the make-up for all of the GDR fashion movies. But the established people were afraid to hang out with us. They came to the exhibitions and were complaining about details in the linings. As if it was about that! It was a dictatorship of the petty bourgeoisie. We had to rebel against that.

You definitely did Frank Schäfer, who is in your movie, was a really extravagant person, right? He walked around in drag and wore provocative make-up. How was that received? Did people understand him?
He suffered. He was way to queer for the gay scene in the GDR. It was great for him to come to West Berlin because he had lots of sex. He was a real colorful specimen in the GDR, probably the most colorful one in East Berlin. But, like many others, there came a time when he had had enough. Since then he has led a very down to Earth life. He is a hairdresser, he opens his shop six days a week at nine in the morning. But he still looks eccentric. It’s interesting that the GDR was more tolerant regarding sexual orientation than this country is. Take nudism, that’s almost scandalous today. It was totally normal in the GDR. There is a fashion show at a nude beach in the movie.

But nudism is de-sexualized, and it seems to me as if it had been the same in the gay community, sex seemed to have been outside of the discourse. There was no discrimination but there weren’t any words for it either, right?
There were quite a few gay bars. I’m not gay myself, but I had lots of friends in the scene. That helped me to get out of the army. They classified me as a psychologically damaged specimen with homosexual tendencies, so the NVA didn’t want me anymore.

Apparently that was similar in the West. My dad tells this story about a gay guy in his army troop who was dishonorably discharged.
Ha ha, I’m a squatter and it was a big shock for me when we clashed with the West Berlin scene, because these people were so radical in their sexuality and their gender politics. I didn’t know that from the GDR, because we partied together all the time and we had sex afterwards. You just tried to get the one that looked the prettiest and to convince him that you are the best. There was no such thing as a gender war, we felt equal to women. The society that came afterward was way less developed.

Did you become a model because you were connected to the fashion scene?
No, the modeling was the start, that was how I met the people. I was discovered in a Friedrichshagen discotheque. I wore this torero jacket I made myself with the lining hanging out. I must have been kind of exceptional in this suburban disco, so the model scout of the Institute of Fashion spotted me and started talking to me.

How old were you?
I must have been 24. The Institute of Fashion was always looking for intellectual types. A lot of the models were actually mathematicians or photographers. They believed that fashion was part of culture, and the models should reflect that. It was a completely different approach than in the West, where it was about catching a trend and reaching a target audience.

You said that you wanted to become a model because you wanted to create art. Was it art for you or was it a step into the fashion and art scene?
That was pretty ambivalent. I wasn’t a really good model, I couldn’t really walk, but I liked beauty and being surrounded by people that were selected due to their bodily charisma. It was about sexuality, we had lots of sex. I was annoyed of being the clothes rack for the Institute of Fashion. It was not intellectually challenging enough. Were you recognized on the street? No, it was actually kind of embarrassing for us to be a model. The GDR was a country of farmers and workers. Now, every teenager wants to be a model. They want to become famous by doing nothing. Something like that didn’t happen in a country where work was the most important thing. To earn money with your looks was kind of objectionable, we were a bit decadent.

Do you think it’s sad that fashion changed so much? Do you think that it has a diminished influence, or do you think that its potential still exists and it’s about to change again?
It’s no longer black and white. Fashion can still be subversive. The jacket that I’m wearing was made by this young Uzbek designer, I bought it straight from the catwalk, because it reminded me of Allerleirauh.

Yes, that’s what I thought as well.
Yeah, people permanently ask me about that jacket and everybody wants to touch it. You can still communicate with your clothes but the political statement is missing. Society is too liberal for that.

Do you still find subjects that are interesting to work on in this liberal society?
Yes, of course. At the moment I’m making a movie about Peter Weibel, he is this really interesting performance artist from Viennese Actionism. He is a great thinker and a mastermind of our time, really. He had a really touching childhood. He was a fugitive from Odessa as a kid, his mum put him in a children’s home because she was overwhelmed. I think that from this lonely and hard childhood a genius has emerged.

Sounds like an interesting guy. What’s your connection to Thailand?
Thailand is my second home. When I was a student I did the sound for a film there. I immediately liked Asia and Buddhist culture, the women, and the lifestyle. It never left me. I later made this movie about the Thai king’s dog. The dog has its own royal title and he serves as a role model for the whole society. Because of all his positive characteristics the king wrote a book about him and published photos. I thought that was really fascinating, that a king edifies his people using a dog. It’s so antique. The movie is called Thai Canine Heroes.

Thailand is still a constitutional monarchy, right?
Yes, there is a big-scale societal conflict in Thailand. The king, who is a pretty positive integrative force that mended the societal conflicts is in hospital now though. He is really old and very sick. It’s the end of an era, and all of these conflicts are breaking open. There is a huge gap between people who own something, and people who don’t.

Did you catch any of the riots?
Yes, although I hang out at a pretty elitist place with Arabian horses galloping along the beach. You can go horseback riding and there are great restaurants there. People are doing too well to be political. It’s a place to relax. But in the shop where I buy my water they had the demonstrations on TV, 24/7, at top volume. The owner is probably a Red Shirt sympathizer. It’s really interesting to see what’s going to happen here.

When the Yellow Shirts demonstrated last year it was especially fascinating because the people where not the establishment but rather the establishment’s help. Do you somehow recognize this from the situation in the GDR?
It’s still hard to analyze or understand this phenomenon using our values. It’s a fact that there is a societal conflict between elitists that held power for hundreds of years in something that is a feudal system, really. The system helps the rich. The guy who tried to help the part of the population that isn’t so well off, and tried to provide them with more influence and money was Thaksin. He was prime minister, but also the richest man in Thailand, and he was completely corrupt. He involved his family in everything and used his position to gain personal profits. But the people don’t care, they are still his fans and he is still the movement’s leader. The elitists have to move over and say, “OK, we’ll change those feudal privileges and give something back.” It’s high time.

Comrade Couture is out right now on DVD and on the festival circuit with stops in Istanbul, Arizona, Buenos Aires and at the MOMA in New York. Find out more at here. Archive photos courtesy of Marco Wilms.

TEXT: STEFAN LAUER